Can liberals help maga find the off-ramp?

I confess. I don’t fully understand why anyone steeped in the culture of maga would be having doubts. Donald Trump is the same man he was the first time he was elected. Literally nothing about him has changed. If you didn’t mind what you saw after 2016, why would you mind what you’re seeing after 2024?

And yet it appears to be the case that maga is cracking. It hasn’t broken apart. It hasn’t crumbled. Not yet. But cracks are discernible not only in polling (Trump’s approval rating has been underwater for more than 300 days), but in the US Congress. 

The Republicans appear nervous about the fact that Trump is paying more attention to Venezuela’s problems than America’s. More importantly, they appear nervous about his broken promises. He said he’d bring down the cost of living on Day One. Nope. He said he’d release the Epstein files. Nope. He said he’d focus on America and leave the rest of the world alone. Nope. 

In general, he said he’d make America great again, but even to his most devoted followers, America still doesn’t feel that great. 

The Republicans in the Congress have reacted with a pace that seems to be increasing. First, it was the Epstein files. All but one voted for their release. Then it was health insurance. Seventeen House Republicans voted to renew ACA subsidies for three years. (That bill now goes to the Senate.) Then it was Greenland and Venezuela. The Senate is poised to vote on a war powers resolution aiming to restrain a president gone rogue.

Cracks, however, are just cracks. The edifice of maga stands firm for now. Trump can send his paramilitary (ICE, CBP) to execute frightened widowed mothers but still expect at least 33 percent of the population to back him. (The most recent Gallup survey that I have seen shows his approval rating to be 36 percent.) 

And yet something is happening. Trump’s blatant abuse of power really does seem to be radicalizing moderates and causing Trumpers to experience cognitive dissonance (a mental collision of diametric beliefs). I haven’t seen Republicans this anxious since a mob sacked and looted the Capitol. Josh Hawley voted for the war powers resolution faster than he ran away from insurgents.

If congressional Republicans are indeed scared, maybe there’s an opportunity. What that might be, exactly, I really don’t know. What I do know is that, in the long term, the Democrats cannot save democracy on their own. They need some Republicans to join them. Perhaps now is the time to help some maga voters step away from the edge, for their sakes and everyone’s sake.

This is the hope of Rich Logis. He’s the founder of a group that helps maga voters betrayed by Trump to come to their senses, though he doesn’t put it that way in this interview with me. 

Instead, Rich told me that some issues, like the invasion of Venezuela and the kidnapping of its leader, are so contrary to the maga worldview (in this case, “America First”) that “over time, more and more in maga will realize that Trump's actions are not for the benefit of most Americans – including his supporters.”

I got in touch with Rich, because he himself reached out to liberals. In a piece for Salon in November, he explained his own indoctrination in maga, why it held him until about 2017, why it still holds millions more, and how liberals can help get them out. 

I went fairly hard on Rich, as you will see. But I think his answers are strong. You might find them persuasive. Anyway, he’s right. 

“If we are going to successfully fight back,” Rich told me, “against the administration's anti-democratic (lower-case d) and unconstitutional actions (defying court orders, apprehending and deporting without due process, among others), it will require unlikely, but necessary alliances.”

Liberals believed the Epstein files are breaking maga. The president is struggling to regain the previously unconditional support of his base. Is that true? What signs are you seeing?

I do think there are fissures within the maga community. Our organization, Leaving MAGA, has been approached by remorseful 2024 maga voters. It would seem from recent polling (even though I am somewhat skeptical of polls) that Trump is losing support among Latinos in particular. What is remarkable about the Epstein story is: in our current media environment, in which stories tend to come and go, the Epstein saga isn't going away. I believe many in maga are experiencing cognitive dissonance over the story, and are beginning to wonder if Trump has been lying to them.

In Salon, you said: "I believe most in maga are good people who have been led astray, exploited and manipulated." Trump hasn't changed. His first term showed who he is. Are you letting his supporters off the hook?

I will not defend my, or anyone else's, ignorance. I, like all maga Americans, support(ed) Trump of our own volition. None of us were coaxed or coerced into voting for Trump and defending him. One of the reasons maga is an extremist group is because vilifying, demonizing and dehumanizing those with whom we disagree is encouraged. 

It is also important, however, to acknowledge that all of us are susceptible to being influenced. Personally speaking, I allowed myself to be inculcated into the maga black-and-white way of thinking, primarily because I consumed only maga-friendly media and spent most of my time with other maga supporters.

You say liberals must create conditions in which maga apostates are welcomed? You can understand that liberals often don't want to welcome those who can't or won't take responsibility for their actions. What's your advice?

Liberals are not wrong about the damage maga and Trump have wrought. I understand why liberals may be weary to befriend maga voters. Trump has traumatized America for more than a decade. 

But if we are going to successfully fight back against the administration's anti-democratic (lower-case d) and unconstitutional actions (defying court orders, apprehending and deporting without due process, among others), it will require unlikely, but necessary alliances. 

I don't ask that maga Americans be coddled. But if one believes all is not lost — after all, many of those in maga are our friends and family — then I would ask my fellow anti-maga countrymen and women: what is gained by publicly judging and ostracizing them? I guarantee that invective against maga supporters strengthens the already-strong tie that binds them to Trump.

You mention maga media. It is everywhere and it's on all the time. It is why otherwise decent and intelligent people believe lies. It is why maga adherents stay adhered to maga. There are rich Democrats who could create their own media universe. If you had five minutes of Warren Buffet's time (for example), what would you say to him?

I'm biased, since our organization features stories of those who left maga. What is needed is more content and media about those who have left, as well as those having doubts about their support for Trump.

If I started a well-funded media company, I would craft my content to find maga Americans who are feeling remorse over their past votes, not to censure them, but to give them a voice that legacy media doesn't seem much interested in providing. There are plenty of published reports focused on reasons Americans had for supporting Trump. But what about those who are now questioning their beliefs? They are among us and we need to get in front of them, and go to where they are. 

Maga media and maga influencers have a stranglehold on the national political discourse. Mis- and disinformation were the primary reasons Trump was reelected. To combat this, there need to be more efforts to engage the apolitical, who follow and consume very little political news. 

Apoliticism is its own bubble, and effective pro-democracy media would seek to pop it.

Many liberals believe maga wants what its getting -- a president who is trying to make America white again. And I think this is largely true. What you're saying is there are some maga who are reachable. How can they be reached if they didn't see the bigotry that was obvious to others? What kinds of policies are appealing? What values?

I have no problem with people enduring the consequences of their electoral choices. This is how the real world works. And, like any large group, there are some in maga who revel in bigotry and hatred. But I think for the balance of maga supporters, there are deeds and rhetoric of Trump's that have given them pause. In my case, one of the earliest such moments was Trump's response to Charlottesville.

For so many, maga is their identity, and they are heavily personally and politically invested in maga, which is why they justify the unjustifiable. I am not defending them, but I cannot emphasize enough how maga has shaped their being and personhood, and how frightening it is to admit that one erred in one's ways and allowed one's self to believe lies. 

I understand why someone might say, "Trump voters are getting what they deserved" or "how could they not have known what Trump would do?" However, many maga voters didn't know much of what Trump would do because the information sources they consume didn't tell them. 

Maga media didn't tell them that American citizens would be kidnapped by ICE. Many didn't know that they would be personally and financially harmed by tariffs, as examples.

Having lived a maga life for seven years, I’m unsurprised by anything that has happened this year. Perhaps that is cynical of me to say. But I am still optimistic headed into 2026, because I believe that more and more people in the maga community are having doubts about their support for Trump and the movement. 

It will take time, but please remember that epiphanies usually occur gradually, and then suddenly, all at once.